Today we honor the men and women who fought in the Vietnam War. Remember their sacrifice because every one of them left a part of themselves in that war. If you are fortunate enough to meet a veteran of that terrible war or a person from Viet Nam, please treat them with the kindness and dignity that they deserve. There were no winners in that conflict.
Image Attribution
“US Flags at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington DC” by Au Kirk is marked with CC BY 2.0.
The Psy of Life 
I understand that it is clear what they are protesting. What I do not understand is how is this strategy making a change. I truly do appreciate this conversation. It is hard to find people now a days that can have hard conversations and remain civil and considerate. I truly believe this is how people learn. Even when the end result is the two people may not agree on everything there is still things we can learn from each other. So far we do agree on a lot of this, it seems the part we disagree on is the strategy that was implemented to achieve the goal of making judicial changes. As we just seen with Trump he stacked the court to achieve his views or agenda with Wade vs Rowe. This is only evidence that the Government politics has effected our Judicial views. If it can happen with this it can happen with race and religion or what ever if you have to power to persuade. So I do agree you would have to be a complete idiot to try and argue there is no problem in our judicial system. To include Police. I do not believe all cops are bad, with that said you can’t believe all are good when you have seen what humans are capable of doing. Spend as much time in combat as I have and that fact is evident. So when I have to make a plan to achieve a mission the first thing I do is learn about my enemy. In this case its the judicial system and the Government as we just seen these two agencies have became allies. Now maybe that was not known when the decision was to use the current strategy, however you have to be able to adapt to change in war. So back to the original planning. I would have to ask myself what is the biggest way to achieve my goal. If it was me I would def be protesting in the places that are effected as in court houses as this was done during trials of the accused police. I think that some of the celebrities that have a huge platform did not use there platform to well. Taking a knee during an anthem does not directly tie or effect the enemy. You ended up making allies that you desperately needed to make the change happen turn against you. These allies are the everyday people, now you won’t get the old racist guy so these people should be put in the other category anyways. So the part we are lacking is how do we effect the enemy, and leave the opportunity to get people to understand, learn, change, and help. This is the part that is hard. The current way will not work, because you are attacking in there eyes something they believe in and your enemy does not. This will close there mind and ears and force you to fight two different enemies on the battlefield at the same time. I would have had the celebrities use what they have to effect the funding of the enemies. Take there money to educate people that donate directly to these organizations. I would have also used there money to put candidates in local elections all the way to congress if I had the funding to do so. This would give you a voice in a place to actually make the change, and had you had the average American that does not think the flag the anthem is a representative of our government but a representative of the people as a whole that love this country and the people in it. You would have had an overwhelming voice, as well as support. You could have put people into both sides of the parties. There was enough wealthy people in America that could have built the funding for this. Yes this is not a fast route, however the way it is currently being done will not change the mindset. We all use our life experiences to fall back on when making decisions and how we live our life. Maybe the reason I don’t understand is all of my life experiences is Military based and combat based. I have a podcast and my goal is to one day see the day before I die there will be zero veteran suicides a day. The podcast is called Two Drunk Dudes in a Gun Room. We talk some of these tough conversations and try and balance it with some comedy. The goal is to give people alternate resources for help besides Gov agencies. So I do understand how hard it is to make change.
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Howdy Bigstock!
I think that part of the point of BLM and Kaepernick is that none of the other protests seemed to work. I think people have been working towards equality for Black people since the inception of the country and it has been the obstacles and objections of slave holders and their descendants that have prevented it from happening and now are rolling back progress.
You may want to check out one of my most popular posts on minority influence concerning how the minority opinion can change the opinion of the majority. Luckily, it is written using BLM and marriage equality as examples. The URL is below.
When it comes to racial disparities and systemic racism, what you’re saying seems right, but it has not worked out so well for Black folks given that people change, in this case, white people, when they’re in enough pain to change. That Kaepernick’s protest was misinterpreted and hijacked by the conservative punditry to blunt its effectiveness does not make his protest ill advised. It did its part. It started people thinking about and discussing the issue. The hijacking occurred when a simplistic misinterpretation is offered — it is disrespecting the flag and the military — and stops any deeper contemplation of the issue.
Because people have been working on the issue of Black equality for literally hundreds of years, they have contemplated the best way of achieving it. When the other side is as intransigent as those Trump and MAGA are, no one tactic will work. It is the long slow work of convincing the majority to change their opinion.
Huzzah!
Jack
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This was a great Article one of the comments really caught my attention that as the soldiers life passes the memory of the war fades. His statement is true but it doesn’t have to. Its important to pass on the knowledge from these vets, its important for our children to know there experience and may even need that knowledge if they go into the military as well. Great article sir.
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Howdy Bigstock!
The generation immediately after that of the vets — the one I’m a part of — were also greatly influenced by the war. The protests of the 60’s went a long way towards forming the way I thought the world worked and what I should be doing.
We should remember the Viet Nam War in its entirety, just like all of our history. We have to remember the good and the bad and those who were pushing for which actions and their motivations. The obvious lesson from Viet Nam, which we did not learn judging by our experience in both Iraq Wars, is that you only go to war for just cause. Putin is finding this out in Ukraine.
Huzzah!
Jack
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I do agree I served a total of 68 months of combat in Bosnia iraq and Afghanistan combined. During the time you believe your fighting for one thing after your time in the service you see the other side. I know for me things I seen over there made a lot more sense when you started questioning the government motives it’s sad but a true fact
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Howdy Bigstock!
I cannot begin to imagine what it is like to have served in a war zone. I don’t imagine that anyone who lives in one comes out of it without scars.
Every government pursues goals and policies that it thinks serves the national interest. The degree to which the national interest is separated from the interests of the individuals that make up the government is the telling point. Unfortunately, between Trump and the current crop of Republicans, they are pursuing individual interests almost exclusively to the detriment of the country.
Huzzah!
Jack
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I don’t think this is just a republican practice. I think this is a political practice. Its not surprising how many millionaires are made in congress. Both sides have an agenda and both need a divided country to achieve their agendas that they are paid to do. I can only control my moral compass, but it hurts me to see how divided we are, this is the key that we gave away to destroy this country. People in this country now look at the Government as they are a direct representation of what Americans stand for. The truth is the government is there to work for us. The flag and our love for each other should be the direct reflection of what America stands for. So these people who are kneeling for the national anthem because they are mad at the government is protesting against what should represent America. This has allowed the politicians to further profit and dived this country.
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Howdy Bigstock!
I don’t agree. I truly think that the Dems do not need a divided country to achieve their agenda. I think, they believe in compromise with the opposition in order to pass legislation, and that is the best way to govern; it is the democratic way of governing. The Republican party has demonstrated since Newt Gingrich that it is less interested in compromise and democratic governance and more interested in minority rule. That is the meaning of Gingrich’s desire for a permanent majority. There can be nothing more anti-democratic than seeking a permanent majority.
Since our government, at least at one time, was for the people, of the people, and by the people, it stands to reason that the government represents who we are and who we are is what America stands for. The question is do we want to stand for a more perfect union in which we strive for all people being equal before the law like the Declaration of Independence says, or do we strive for only white men being equal before the law like the framers of the Constitution mostly believed?
One of the things that America was predicated on is the ability of the individual to voice criticism of the government. Kneeling, no matter how you interpret its meaning or purpose, is simply voicing a criticism of the government, which is foundational to our belief system. Violence is not.
Huzzah!
Jack
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I do agree with some of this so let me start there. I do completely agree that racism as well as politics and money runs our judicial system. I am saying this all the way down to the county and state level courts. I’ve seen it first hand in a family related incident. I also agree that a movement is needed. My point wasn’t to get people not to push for change. My point was they chose a way to do it that will not benefit them. Yes I am very pro soldier. I served for 20 years so I have seen soldiers put in situations that risks there lives for lies from people in suits. I love this country I do not love our government. With this in mind why would I protest the one symbol that people who love America relate to. We can’t change the problems in our government as well as our judicial system. The people who can make these changes do not care about the flag either. The government as a whole not individuals is about money. They have gotten so big that freedoms and rights are being threatened as well as taxes being raised to the point that families can’t win anymore. There is a huge mental health problem in this country but nobody with money is paying to make this a priority. I have learned that we don’t have a representative in the White House and haven’t for a long time. Why is it that we have regulated our country so much that we don’t produce near to nothing anymore. So we import a dominant the majority of goods. Than we pass stimulants to help the people and part of that package billions of dollars were sent to countries in aid that tax payers will pay for even if you tax the rich it will be the middle class and lower class paying in increased goods so the big business gets more expenses in taxes or routes for tax deductions. You look at all these things and you realize our government has been bought. I can point examples on both parties this is why I’m politically homeless I don’t have a party. To go back to my point I didn’t mean to get off topic. I just feel like people don’t know who the enemy is they need to fight and I don’t mean physically I’m just saying they are mad and are confused on where the real problem lies
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Howdy Bigstock!
They aren’t protesting the symbol; they are protesting the enthusiastic murder of unarmed Black people over minor or non-infractions. You need only look to see that the July 4th parade, Uvalde, and Buffalo shooters were all taken alive, but, for example, unarmed Jayland Walker was shot 60 times. The racist double standard that kneeling during the anthem is protesting is painfully clear. To pretend that it is disrespecting the flag or the country is to disrespect the lives of all of those Black people the police have murdered and to impede any progress towards forming a more perfect union by not holding police accountabe.
Huzzah!
Jack
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i originally had Viet Nam Veterans scroll sawed and super glued to my garage window sill. scroll saw platform is a little crooked, it cuts on a angle now. RTO’s, RPC repairmen, indirect fire, met all kids of them the past number of years. just so you know, in my corner of the globe your not forgotten at all. i work on collections. FYI check out the Vetank on line, Allenforce, an actual tanked wheelchair that could drive through anything and or over. use to write a ton of letters to Homer Townsend Jr, was mailing in drawing idea, schematics, to tanked wheelchairs, Homer was reaqlly cool, collected all the address labels from the PVA Paralyzed Veterans of America, post office stole a couple of my donations to the PVA and am kinda pissed over it, i filed a case with the AG Office to compensate to reissue the donations back to the PVA. your not forgotten by no means necessary guys. Me? Im all in for still finding all the POW/MIA that didnt come back, if they can find cavemen frozen in ice from a million years ago they dam well can find all the missing men and women from the war and or the Korean conflict.
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Howdy Patrick!
I lived in Viet Nam for six years at the beginning of the century. Lovely county, great people. One thing that struck me was the number of TV shows that were on about Vietnamese vets out looking for the remains of their fallen comrades. Now that I live in Cambodia, I became aware of the effort by both governments to locate the remains of those lost and repatriate them.
The Buddhist belief is that the soul cannot pass on to the next life until it has been laid to rest with the proper ceremony. I think those concerned realize that time is running out for that generation.
Huzzah!
Jack
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Time is a unit of measurement, they found boats at the bottom of the deepest debpts of oceans and fozen cavemen, they found all kinds of cool rocks on mars as well as the moon, POW/MIA needs both America and over there to actively search for all remains so familys can have some peace too.
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Howdy Patrick!
I agree that the families of the missing deserve peace. I know the Vietnamese believe that, too, and they are working with the American government to locate and repatriate the remains of the missing.
As the vets and their descendents die, few will be left to push the issue for those that remain unfound, though. That is what I mean by time is running out. When the last Viet Nam vet dies, there will be no one left to push for it. The same in Viet Nam, too. Their vets are aging and dying, too.
Huzzah!
Jack
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I’m kinda’ proud of my dishonorable discharge …
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Honor is in the eye of the beholder, ain’t it?
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I’m not proud of what I did. You’ll not find me prancing around in a parade, or panhandling a streetcorner.
The Wall is purty. Peacefull even. What’s between me and the Wall is between me and the Wall … until I breathe my last. And then it will be forgotten. It is The Way.
Honoring dead soldiers glorifies War …
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Howdy Ten Bears!
There is a lot of grief caught up in war. Glorification and mythologizing are wrong, but grieving, which our ceremonies help us do as a large group, I think is beneficial. It’s an interesting controversy, though. People squeal pretty loudly from time to time when the Japanese emperor visits the WW II war dead shrine because Japan shouldn’t be allowed to mourn its dead? I don’t know.
Huzzah!
Jack
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Did you read Dear America Letters Home from Viet Nam? i had the paper back, read it. its compelling beyond imagination.
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Howdy Patrick!
I haven’t read that book, but I’ll check to see if my library has it. I’m doing quite a bit of reading this summer.
The BEST novel about the war was “Sorrows of War” by Bao Minh, a Viet Cong officer during the war.
Huzzah!
Jack
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Is Viet cong north or south? im trying to learn.
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The Viet Cong were fighting for the North.
Huzzah!
Jack
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what happened in 1967 over there? that is the year i was born. What went on in America and or other countrys during that war? i met a few veterans that were in the bush that stated it was politicians at fault, each human being has the right to express their own thoughts yet those that lived in that time probably know it the best, i mean the normal human beings probably know more. One guy stated he was over there and said lots of bee’s that i think was discriptive to something else such as live rounds nyet he said he was in the bush.
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Howdy Patrick!
There has been lots written about Viet Nam and the war by lots of different people including people who were there. So, listening to those guys who were there is important. They have a perspective different from the major decision makers, but, like I said, they are rapidly dying out. I don’t know what happened in 1967. I remember 1968 as an eventful year, though, the Mai Lai Massacre and the Tet Offensive.
Huzzah!
Jack
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i qualified on a 60 that the SSG stated was used over there. 12-B Egn ARNG
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I don’t know what any of this means.
Jack
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Dear America Letters Home From Viet Nam was a paper back book we had, after we read it i gave it to my Veterans Service Officer, i wanted to keep it yet he helped and wanted to give something back, we donated to the PVA the DAV, the WWP ect, i have service connected disability TBI and PTSD are the worst of all the other things, it was a stupid accident on base, cracked my skull in the mess hall fractured the left orbital wall that lead to dizzziness in the barracks staircase and flew down a flight of steps. by the way, look up the Vetank with Allenforce of a tanked wheelchair, when i seen it i told the owner id send the same designs to Homer Townsend Jr when he was CEO. a neighbor got me the book by Westmoreland A Soldier Reports, Dear America Letters home from viet nam we rescued from someones garbage can when we use to be able to walk the neighborhood. inside the book the preface has donald trumps name in it it stated him and another guy helped fund the wall on the east coast, FYI, its just a comment, yet the book is derived of letters guys wrote in the bush and mailed home to their loved ones
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Those would be interesting letters to read, indeed. I will look for it.
Jack
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Reblogged this on cabbagesandkings524 and commented:
Calico Jack reminds of a day to remember.
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A remembrance day not much top of the national mind these days
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No it is not. The Vietnam War is fixing to go the way of the Korean War, WW I, and the dodo bird. It fades into a distant memory as the vets reach the end of their natural life spans.
It puts me of a mind of “The Sorrows of War” by Bao Ninh. A memoir by a Viet Cong soldier. It was a very moving book of an experience that was not too different from those told by the American side. I was always amazed by how matter-of-factly the Vietnamese treated Americans and accepted the American War, as they called it. The war seems to fade even faster for them, perhaps given the youth of their population.
Huzzah!
Jack
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I recall a comment by an American Vet who went to Vietnam and met some of those former enemy soldiers and was surprised by how they welcomed him and so matter of factly talked about the war. One of them explained that the Vietnamese had been fighting off invaders, the Chinese, the Mongols, The French, etc. for a thousand years, and learned not to hold grudges against the troops, but remain watchful of the leaders. It seemed sort of a, “Just another chapter in a long story with different faces, language, and weapons, but not much else new.” Now, they have China to worry about again with what it is doing in the South China Sea.
Here, we weren’t able to mythologize that war. The closest Hollywood came was Rambo. The other movies weren’t the stuff of heroic legend – The Deer Hunter, Born On The Forth Of July, and Apocalypse Now? And MASH was set in Korea, although China Beach was Nam, but, like MASH, about the medics, not the grunts.
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Howdy Bob!
I feel like I’ve related this anecdote before, so if I have, please forgive me. In downtown HCMC, the former Sai Gon, there are two large parks with old stately trees growing in them. They are far too large for a city of that size and density to have. They have a peculiar design. The have alternating lines of walkways, green grassy “lanes,” and trees. I’ve been told that they were the old French colonial cemeteries. As soon as the American War ended, the government disinterred the bodies and repatriated them to France. They hated the French. They wanted nothing more to do with them.
Perhaps my favorite Viet Nam War movie, besides “Tropic Thunder,” was “We Were Soldiers.” And there’s always “The Quiet American.”
It’s hard to believe that something that was important as the Viet Nam War was to my formative years, is hardly even thought about much less understood by the younger generations. Talk about violating proportionality bias.
Huzzah!
Jack
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Nations rarely enjoy talking about wars they’ve lost, unless they can blame internal or external saboteurs.
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It doesn’t make for good marketing campaigns. There is an entire Japanese comic book industry devoted to the theme, what if Japan had won WW II, and it doesn’t imagine the dystopia that “The Man in the High Tower” does.
TV and film play an odd role in our national storytelling. They really haven’t been around very long, and I think there is the possibility to help us process our history to understand it in a better or clearer light to put it in perspective. Many of the Viet Nam War movies helped us do that. Some of the Iraq War movies help us with that. Interesting that there have been few or no Afghanistan War movies. We had “Homeland,” but that was about it… I think. I’m not as up on pop culture as I could be.
Huzzah!
Jack
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We may get some about Afghanistan, now that we are out of there. It is hard for the story tellers to process a war while it is still going on. The exception was WW2, but that was propaganda.
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I think the movies made during the war are of the “Green Berets” variety because support the troops. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in movies and TV since Afghanistan ended… if any at all.
Jack
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One type to watch for will be narratives related to our upcoming political campaigns, such as a GOP version of the Afghanistan withdrawal blaming Biden for “losing the war”.
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There certainly were enough of those surrounding Benghazi.
Jack
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Quite so, although I don’t recall any of them being nominated for the Oscars.
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